Naruto Shippuden 416 begins another small set of terrible and over repeated fillers with Kakashi, Obito and Rin, with their first mission with Minato. It goes all wrong when the shinobi’s they’re accompanying betray them whilst carrying a special scroll. Minato and Obito have to face a large number of enemy shinobi as they’re trapped within a dense forest.
Naruto Shippuden 416 begins with Obito going around as he over hears others talking about Kakashi, they mention that he’s a terrible person who only wants to finish missions even if it means leaving a person behind. He remembers that Kakashi would never do that. Next few days he talks to Rin about if she’s seen Kakashi around, she says that she hasn’t.
They part and he goes to the park, he see’s Kakashi there sitting. He says hello, Obito begins to talk when Kakashi just gives him a look as though he’s dead inside, Kakashi tells Obito to leave him alone. Obito trains really hard when Rin comes by to say hello. Obito is training to surprise Kakashi.
One day Hiruzen asks Minato to supervise Kakashi to make him a better person. At the graduation ceremony, we see Obito and Rin at the ceremony as Rin is waiting for Obito to arrive as he’s once again late. Obito and Rin are finally Genin. They’re also on the same team, there being a third member who is Kakashi.
Minato teaches them about teamwork with the test. Obito, Rin and Kakashi go on a mission to find a cat and a lost item. Obito quickly does this by asking the grannies, he also receives sweets and such from them. It seems all the odd jobs are done, Hiruzen assigns them a mission outside the village.
Rin tells Kakashi that he’s been worried about him, at the mission. They have to escort a scroll without getting it lost of caught by the enemy. Obito realises how awesome Minato is when he also mentions if he’s stronger than the White Fang when Kakashi just runs off.
Minato realises that this is much more of an important mission as they have to split up, Minato and Obito fight against the chasing enemy members. Obito is caught up in a shadow clone but Minato comes to help him. Lots more enemy members appears. Kakashi and Rin help the other escorts. Kakashi tries to block the kunai but one of the kunai’s get through and hurts an innocent member over the bridge, he falls off.
Once they’re safe outside the forest, one of the people there tries to thank them the other two betray them by killing him. These two enemy members now get ready and try to attack. The member who is on the ground realized that they could be the traitors there. Naruto Shippuden 416 ends here.
A somewhat of a terrible episode that tells the story of how Kakashi will turn from being a nasty team member into helping and making sure that everyone is safe. Next week’s Naruto Shippuden 417, titled “You’ll Be My Backup” see’s the end of this stupid filler and back into where Obito and Kakashi are facing the dreaded Madara.
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Wow, more fillers……………the show is really trying to drag itself out as long as possible. This definitely sounds like a pretty bad episode and a really unnecessary one at that. Hopefully this will be the last set of fillers, but that’s what I keep telling myself and the anime finds a way to change that. We’re so close too.
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Totally agree, I really feel like just giving up on the anime, but since it’s now so close to end I think it’s time to push through till the anime. Hopefully after next week it’ll be canon all the way!
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I haven’t watched this yet and might skip this filler. The last Kakashi filler that told pretty much his whole life story, following him from his Genin days all the way through Anbu was pretty awesome and more than enough.
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This basically tries to concentrate on how lonely and dark Kakashi has gotten that he doesn’t care about anything except trying to finish the mission. Even if it means his comrades getting killed.
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They kinda hammered that one home already tho lol. Let us know if it’s any good.
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This episode, terrible. I’ve seen some many of this with Kakashi and Obito back story that I’m just tired of it now. The next episode will cover half of this past stuff and then go back to the normal canon.
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Thanks, I figured as much. With the manga done I don’t understand the need for filler anyway… Unless they already have plans to roll right into Gaiden, which means they are treating it like it never ended.
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Maybe but still I’d want a break from the fillerfull naruto anime. If they want Gaiden to begin, I’d want it to start with Gaiden episodes, not lots of fillers before it begins.
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I wonder why they keep showing these flashbacks. Don’t we already know what happened to these three already? 😛
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those flashbacks r soo boring, & some of them are repetitive, one doesnt even get to enjoy the heat & tension of the battle with all these trips to memory lane getting in the way…
& guys, since i have catch up with u in Naruto as far as the anime goes, i just wanted to know ur opinion on this…
minato Vs Shisui, who do u think really deserved the title has the fastest Shinobi?
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That’s a good question. Minato is very fast. But so is Shisui. I’ll have to do some research and find out.
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do you mean Uchiha Shisui??? if so, WOW! i’m never know about him being so fast..i mean not that fast where he could be compare with Minato…maybe because i’m always skip the flashback arc especially the non-canon..so far only Senju Hashirama that i considered equal to Minato
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Not enough info on Shisui for me to not give it to the Fourth. In canon they only mentioned him a couple times as being famous for his teleportation. Meanwhile, Minato was Legendary for his teleportation and became the Hokage largely because of that ability. I’m not saying Shisui wasn’t excellent with his, I just don’t think they were on the same level. In canon Shisui was more noted for his Sharingan.
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Shisui is noted for both his sharingan & his body flicker technique hence y he is also refered to as Shisui of the body flicker or Shisui “the teleporter”, his body flicker technique is soo fast that it leaves no trace of either his presence or his destination hence y he was nicknamed “the teleporter” coz he was soo fast that it almost seem as thou he was teleporting while in truth he wasn’t…The body flicker is also the same technique that the 4th raikage use in combination with lighting to move soo fast as wel…
i brought this up because of how both Minato & Shisui have bn nick-named given their signature ability…Minato is being refered to as the yellow flash given how fast he is but in truth he teleports while on the otherhand Shisui is being refered to as the teleporter while in truth, he moves faster than body senses can register..
So, back to my original question, who really deserves the title of the fastest shinobi? & y?
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I say movement is movement. You would be hard pressed to find anyone that agrees that, Gai is faster than Yondy. Everyone knows Gai is retarded fast, but his manual speed does not compare to the Yellow Flash. IMO it’s the same deal with Shisui vs Minato. If we are talking about getting from A to B the fastest, regardless of how it’s done, then Minato is king.
My comparison between Gai and Minato was one between Gai’s physical speed due to his conditioning and Minato’s ninjutsu. I know you feel that Shisui is in the same boat as Gai, but he isnt. Both Body Flicker and FTG are Ninjutsu that require seals and chakra and cannot be done without the two, so this is a contest of Ninjutsu regardless if BF is considered teleportation or not.
FTG is faster than BF by default since it’s movement is instantaneous and BF is only high speed, albeit VERY high speed.
The only unknown here is whether or not Shisui was capable of using BF in rapid enough succession that his overall movement exceeds Minato’s ability to use FGT in rapid succession. My honest opinion is definitely not. He would have to be working impossibly faster than Minato to make his short range/high speed jutsu overcome an unlimited range/instaneous jutsu… and the speed at which Minato could repeatedly use FTG was his claim to fame. There is also the fact that Minato, too, uses BF, and his BF is described as being so fast that it is confused with his FTG.
As far as their own natural speed goes, there is no mention of Shisui having great natural speed. Minato, however, is described as having immense natural speen and nearly instantaneous reflexes. It would seem that Shisui loses on all accounts. This information is coming from the same wiki you got yours from btw.
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“movement is movement” hehehe! thanks for noticing where i was heading with this..but i have also realized from that u look highly of “Minato”…I have to agree with most of your opinions thou given how u approached my question…I knw the FTG is faster than BF(depending on the distance but FTG will always have the edge since its instantaneous travel given any distance) from point A to B ..The point of my question was to see wat criteria would one consider wen comparing the two in terms of speed, Now IMO, teleportation(FTG) isnt speed but given the fact that both BF & FTG r Ninjutsu, u thought its only ryt to compare them based on that fact…Now, by saying that, u made it rather a contest of Ninjutsu rather than of speed, either way from ur perception of things still, i agreed for the most part with wat ur wer saying until u instigated smething about Minato perhaps having the fastest BF than Shisui as wel, wel, i dont agree with that one, & has a matter of fact, i also think the fourth raikage has faster BF than Minato, its only ryt for the most part for one to confuse Minato’s FTG with his BF given his prowess & how quick he can be able to use & switch into both these techniques to combo, & to an even greater effect, but to assume dat his BF is fast as his FTG based on that its ridiculous, jst look into the same wiki on ninjutsu abt the BF technique, Shisui is reowned for this technique, u can even have a look into other sites dat explain about naruto ninjutsus in general & im sure u will find the same name wen it comes to the use of “Shunshin no Jutsu”(Body Flicker technique), Now the same can be said to Minato for being known as the fastest but the arguement comes from the fact that can one consider teleportation or not to be speed… we myt both be ryt given how one approches this & how one considers teleportation to be put into regard or not, but atleast we both have the same view on something, Might Guy in eight gates is definetly the fastest in Narutoverse
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Well your opinion of Shusui’s speed with BF is based on it’s description in the wiki, about how he disappears from sight and his movement can’t be traced. My opinion is based of Minato’s description in that very same wiki, and his BF is described as being comparable to FTG. To call my opinion ridiculous is unfair since my info comes from the same place as yours.
Furthermore, instantaneous is… well instantaneous. If Minato’s BF is described as being fast enough to be confused with FTG/instantaneous movement, then that describes greater speed than simply disappearing from sight. BOTH of their BF disappear from sight without a trace, but only Minato’s is being compared to the fastest possible movment in the Narutoverse.
Also, no matter how fast Gai might be when eight gates are open, he is STILL not moving instantaneously from A to B so he is not traveling faster than Minato.
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hehehe! ur one slick guy do u know dat, thou i dont mean it in a bad way@Crimson Kinghgf
& sorry if the word ridiculous didnt sit wel with u, forgive me for my poor choice of words…I know that their is a description of Minato’s BF being described as comparable to his FTG on Minato’s page..its only ryt if one described it dat way since it is also written dat his FTG was confused with his BF with his enemies…Thats why by noticing that, i told u to go look into the same source about the “Body flicker technique” If Minato was also flawless in using this technique they would have not missed mentioning abt it here..I went even further by telling dat u can look into other sites dat explain further about naruto’s ninjutsu in general, & look into the part where they explain about “Shunshin no Jutsu”(Body Flicker technique) if u smehow find the wikia to be contradicting(thou IMO, i dont think it is since i understood) & im sure u will find same praise abt Shisui & no mentions of Yondy being flawless in using this technique, u will also find some praise about the 4th Raikage also being proficient in using this technique in combination with his lighting…so given the fourth Hokage’s fame & the fact that we havent really seen dat much of Shisui other than in some flash-back, but still we hear of his fame of his use of BF & no praise of Yondy at all wen it comes to the use of this technique, IMO this proves Shisui was more prowess in using the BF than the fourth Hokage..
& as for the comparison btn Gai & Minato, u admitted urself that gai is faster than Yondy in ur earlier comment, now ur contracting urself again by saying he isnt fast than Minato since Minato is moving instantaneously from A to B with his teleportation, i thought i made it clear that i dont count teleportation to be speed, its for that every reason that we came to be in this debate in the first place, & even so, the only reason why most people consider Gai to be even faster is because he was able to out speed Madara as a sage of six path while on the otherhand Minato with his FTG in combination with his sage mode failed to out-wit him..Its for this very reason why most folks think Gai is faster than Minato, Now, u myt be making a good point(about teleportation being instant travel & all) but given the fact that Minato wasnt able to out-wit Madara & Gai did i’ll say Gai is faster…
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You are bending my words, and also, I made no contradictions. I never once said Gai was faster than Minato… not once. Go back and read if you don’t believe.
This is exactly what I said… “Everyone knows Gai is retarded fast, but his manual speed does not compare to the Yellow Flash..”
And later on I also said… “Also, no matter how fast Gai might be when eight gates are open, he is STILL not moving instantaneously from A to B so he is not traveling faster than Minato.” Once again, you are welcome to check it word for word
As for Shisui being more famous for BF while Minato is rarely mentioned for that jutsu, it’s because FTG is a far greater jutsu than BF. That would be like talking about Naruto’s Rasengan more than his Fuuton Rasenshuriken. Minato is highly proficient with BOTH, but why celebrate him for the lesser justsu??? He is hailed as “The Fastest Shinobi Alive” for his use of FTG, a title that has remained unchallenged. The wiki’s description of his BF being fast enough to be confused with FTG is good enough for me, plus I have seen it animated and it really amounts to the same.
You also said again that you don’t count teleportation as speed… and I say again, movement is movement, he get’s around faster than anybody in the manga. Also I already commented about the wiki’s information stating that he has ‘IMMENSE NATURAL SPEED’ and ‘nearly instantaneous reflexes.’ They mention this in the manga as well. The Fourth was fast by all accounts, not just FTG.
Now that we’ve established that I made NO contradictions… the people who think Gai with gates opened is faster than Minato are wrong. I already said his movement is slower because it isn’t instantaneous, but I will expand on that to explain your example about Madara.
There are many instances in many manga, not just Naruto, where characters are not allowed to use their powers to the fullest extent because it harms the story, or leads the story in a direction the writer does not want. Speed is probably the most potent ability in any story with powers… if you have enough of it, who can fight back? Extreme speed as well as sheer power ABSOLUTELY MUST be reigned in from time to time. You need only see ONCE what a character is truly capable of to know his ability, but do not expect to see it all the time.
The battle between Gai and Madara was meant to happen. We were meant to finally see the eight gates opened and what it could do, and it was meant to look incredible after saving it for so long. It was not meant for Minato to stop everything with instantaneous movement 24/7.
Here are other random examples of the plot forcing the writer to reign powers in…
1) Naruto in the weaker first version of 9 tails mode outspeeds the Raikage’s fully powered fastest attack and is compared to the Yellow Flash, but later on (and nearly the rest of the manga) he is running at normal speed pretty much everywhere even after acquiring 100% of Kurama’s power. He took forever and a day just to high-5 everyone and pass out his chakra.
2) Naruto vs Edo Itachi… The two engage in hand to hand combat!!! Absolutely impossible when Naruto has that kind of speed. And this is not teleportation, his limbs etc. are moving that fast. Itachi does not possess super speed of any kind… no way he could possibly hit or block Naruto regardless if his Sharingan could follow the movement. It should have been like when Lee beat Sasuke the first time they fought. Sasuke had the eyes, but couldn’t keep up physically. Naruto would have pwned Itachi with speed and super strengh if it was allowed to stay realistic, but look at all the things Itachi did after that battle that wouldn’t have happened..
3)Tsunade vs Oro in the 3-way Deadlock. Tsunade is stronger than the Raikage. Strong enough to smash God knows how many tons of solid stone into nothing but dust. Such hits would explode a human head on contact and leave nothing left, but as we know she barely left a scratch on Oro… and the only explanation offered was that Oro was using a brand new body… like that freakin matters. This body, that body.. he toothpaste regardless. She is literally powerful enough to send body parts flying no matter where she connects. But Oro plays a major role in the story and cannot die in the Sannin battle.
Pretty much everybody with super strength in Naruto gets the same treatment. They do extraordinary damage to inanimate objects, fodder, and their surroundings, but do very little damage when hitting other characters.
So you see there is purpose in reigning powers in… unless you desire to watch Naruto and Minato zoom all over the place 24/7 at speeds to great for others to do anything about, wtf pwning everyone and destroying plots before they can unfold.
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Sorry dat i couldnt reply in time, i was abit feeling weary & some wat sick..
This is exactly wat u said “Gai is faster than Yondy. Everyone knows Gai is retarded fast, but his manual speed does not compare to the Yellow Flash”
Now from that wat i gathered was u acknowledged Gai speed in eight gates but u dnt think dat is movement can match Minato’s FTG..Now considering the fact dat that i dont count teleportation to be speed & its for that very reason that we came to be in this debate in the first place..Its only right dat i thout u acknowledged Gai’s eight gates is faster than Yondy at least wen it comes to my side of things since i dont count teleportation as manual speed as u so put it..
Now about ur other statement about Shisui being famous for a lesser jutsu & the fact that they r rarely mentions of Minato, first of all, before i can go any further with wat u wer saying, they are no mentions at all of Minato prowess in using this technique other than in Minato’s own page, u also said that the reason of dat is because Minato uses a far greater jutsu(as if the BF is the same technique as the FTG), & even made (forgive me for my poor choice of words) a rather poor example abt “talking more about Naruto’s Rasengan more than his Fuuton Rasenshurikenn” while Fuuton Rasenshuriken is an even greater technique…First of all, Fuuton Rasenshuriken is the advancement of the rasengan technique & was born as the result of the Rasengan…BF & FTG arent the same techniques at all for u to be trying to compare them as the rasengan & the fuuton rasenshuriken, & as a matter of fact, FTG is the advancement of the “summoning jutsu” only that one summons himself given the hirashin mark…
yeah! i dont denie FTG is a complex jutsu than the BF given its difficulty & the fact that only two shinobi up till where we r at r able to use it..but again, u turned this to be rather a matter of contest btn the two jutsu’s like earlier, which isnt the case here..as the matter of fact, if we were to compare the two jutsu’s here u could see that at some counts, FTG is slower since it requires alot of prep. tym compared to the BF & BF can be use more in rapid succession compared to FTG since its not complex & it doesnt require much prep. tym & uses less chakra in comparison to FTG(mind u dat FTG technique is ranked higher given its level of difficulty)
Now, Given the fact that i said most people consider Gai in eight gates to be even faster than Minato since Minato in sage mode failed out-wit Madara & the fact that Mighty Gai was able to overwhelm Madara with his speed..u thought it was for the sake of making the eight gates look even more incredible & the fact that Minato wasnt meant to do so & it was for the sake of the plot & how the writer wanted it to be..hahahahahahahahahahaha,..u really r Minato’s fanboy, ther is no doubt abt dat, Hw about the fact that taijutsu & Kenjutsu r even quicker in execution than ninjutsu, so given the fact that Gai was in 8th gates & the best taijutsu user, he could have easily overwhelm Madara given the fact that he will be quick enough to stop & counter Madara before he use ninjutsu & there fore force Madara to use taijutsu as wel??
And besides, i think its only ryt we stick to Naruto based facts & not get our perception of things get in the way much coz if we do then we can almost argue jst about everything for-example i too think that Kurama’s power of all beasts was really exaggerated. But given the story how it went, im forced to agree that Kurama’s had alot of power in comparison to other tailed beasts, which is true in some sense since he is after-all the most powerful tailed beast, even thou the concept of other villages trying to will tailed beast for power earlier is seemigly rather a useless strategy since the one with the most powerful tailed beast is the most powerful of all the villages
u also said smething abt naruto being faster than the 4th raikage, wel can easily say that Naruto has the potential of being faster than anyone given his powers, but also the fact the he was able to dodge the raikage’s fastest attack it was bcoz he put everything into his speed so as to dodge that attack & the fact that we dont see much of dat speed in Naruto’s fighting its because its not his style of fighting unlike with his father, & therefore he is cant really resort to relie on it much, mind u that the only reason he was faster than the raikage is bcoz he was exhausting his efforts more in trying to get away from him other than fighting him unlike with Itachi..
As Oro/Tsunade, well cant really say much can i, all in all, my point is we should bring much of our personal perception of characters other than stick to the actual facts that r already their unless, one brings his personal notion as a did with this debate…I know for a fact that Minato is fast but i brought in a gesture of wat we consider wen we call one as being fast, which can be debatable but only given its from Naruto’s side of things & not solely based on personal perception given how u only see it..Naruto is faster than his father, gai in eight gates is faster than Minato(if we dont consider teleportation as speed), Shisui has the fastest BF than Minato since according to most of Naruto’s references he is reowned for this technique followed by the fourth raikage, Minato with FTG is faster than Shisui, Minato with FTG might be faster than Gai in eight gates(given point A to B given the distance) but Might gai has faster reaction tym than Minato in eight gates(taijutsu is faster than Ninjutsu) & finally Naruto has the potential of being faster than all of them given his potential…
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*my point is we shouldnt
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Bruh, you are really dead set on disproving Minato as the fastest Shinobi alive… but the manga doesn’t agree with you, nor does the wiki. Gai is not faster than Minato. You will not find anyone that agrees with you… EVER… ON ANY BORAD… he just isnt. Perhaps his natural speed is somewhat greater, but not enough to overcome Minato’s teleportation. It’s the fastest possible movement in Naruto and pointless to even try and dispute.
Don’t get disrespectful by calling me a Minato fanboy. I’m not, I just like to stick to the facts… plus I can become really nasty on here, but I like this place, so I won’t. It’s one thing to have a strong opinion about something, it’s another to defend it to the point that you ignore facts, bend ppls words, and start name calliing.
You have no solid evidence whatsoever that Shisui’s BF is faster than Minatos. NOWHERE in any manga or wiki does it say that. IT IS ONLY YOUR OPINION. Your whole argument is based off the description in the wiki and the fact that it’s mentioned in reference to Shisui more than Minato. I already told you Minato is famous for FTG and is mentioned more for that than BF because it’s the greater jutsu of the two.
Minato’s BF is described as being fast enoough to confuse with FTG, which is instaneous movement. He wins by default… game over. Even Minato’s Natural speed is being described as immense and his reflexes nearly instantaneous… which means Shisui can’t perform the seals for BF faster than him… Again GAME OVER.
You keep trying to discredit and ignore the facts and descriptions about Minato that heavily outweigh Shisui. If anyone is a fanboy it’s you. I have everything in black in white on my side, descriptions clearly describing one thing faster than the other.
NOBODY IS USING THE WORD INSTANTANEOUS IN REFERENCE TO SHISUI’S JUTSU OR HIS NATURAL MOVEMENTS OR ANYTHING ELSE FOR THAT MATTER. THEY ARE HOWEVER USING IT TO DESCRIBE MINATO’S JUTSU AND NATURAL MOVEMENT… G A M E – O V E R
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Now that I think about it… your initial question was about who is faster, period. But ever since you couldn’t dispute the fact that FTG is faster than BF, you’ve been looking for ways to narrow it down to who’s BF is faster, even going so far as say you don’t consider teleportation speed…lol
What’s really going on here is you’ve made up your mind from the very beginning that Shisui is faster. You don’t wanna acknowledge facts about the 2, you just wanna win the discussion… and you call me a fanboy???
Again I will break this down very simply so that everyone reading this forum will understand.
The description of Shisui’s BF is just a visual description, nothing more. There are no references to make claims that it was the best ever.
The description of Minato’s BF is visual….. AAANNNDDD…. there is also a COMPARISON to instantaneous movement.
So simple even a child could choose.
Child: Minato can move instantaneously, shisui cant…
Child: Shisui’s BF is quite fast and is talked about often… but wait, Minato’s is so fast it appears to be instantaneous… I think I’ll go with that one.
Child: How come they don’t talk about Shisui’s natural speed? I guess it’s just his BF. WOW.. Minato has immense natural speed and nearly instantaneous reflexes.
Child: That was such an easy decision XD
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@Crimson, i have called u a fanboy but dat doesnt neccessary mean im disrespectful, i think ur rather too quick to draw conclusion about things…
this debate wasnt, i repeat wasnt all about who’s faster btn Shisui & Minato, its was more about given Minato is the fastest shinobi, does he really deserve that title given the title & his fame solely lies on the use of the teleportation jutsu rather than his actual speed, & i put Shisui to compare with him since he is reowned for using the BF & the faster means of speed a shinobi can use..My point was to see wat we will pple consider wen it comes to one being fastest, will they solely base on manual speed or will they just not give damn so long as one considers movement to be movement given its teleportation or not…
Its not like i jst came with this notion out of my head, they have bn alot of debates & discussions about smething of sorts in many naruto forums, & wen it comes to judging the fastest, it all comes down to whether one considers teleportation to be speed or not, same sort of thing as we r arguing about here…
but given the fact that ur at boiling point, i think its only ryt dat we end this pointless argument since none of us understand the other, thou i understood u for the most part, i just dont understand y u couldnt see my side of things as wel, we myt have been stuck in the fact whose faster given manual speed btn Shisui & Minato but the fact that u even ignored Gai to be faster given his manual speed in eight gates made me abit wonder dat perhaps we r just seeing things differently & we cant come to a mutual conclusion..so before u come all nasty on me i guess i myt as jst walk myself out..I wouldnt want any of our precious tym dat each of us has spend commenting back to one another to have been a total waste simply bcoz we ended up saying nasty stuff to each other..Ur a good lad & i appreciate the fact that u of all pple despite being strong on my opinion, u took ur tym to reply to me back & for that ur a good lad, jst abit agitated today i guess….
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I did enjoy your debt on this specific category. I saw one discussion very similar but it was about who is faster. The Yellow Flash Minato, or the Flash Goddess Yoruichi. Some people did bring up if teleportation is considered actual speed. Some say what would happen if they fought. Who knows. I would gladly debate anyone who thinks is stronger and faster of the two.
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Your use of ‘fanboy’ in this discussion is condescending. You speak as if my judgment is clouded by my appreciation of the character instead of rooted in facts of the manga. If I seem agitated it’s because of your choice of words. First I’m ridiculous… then I’m a fanboy. I’m not an idiot, I can tell when I’m being slighted. Also, what you ‘wanted” out of this discussion has changed along the way to suit your purpose. I merely stated what’s in black in white while you clung to your opinion of Shisui, an opinion to doesn’t have much in the way of support from the manga, wiki or anime.
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